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- Poll . 

Your expectations for KDE 4.3?


Posted by Yaba on Mar 20 2009
More features20%20%20% 20%
Focus on Stability32%32%32% 32%
Focus on Performance29%29%29% 29%
Focus on Polishing (Look and Feel)17%17%17% 17%
Other2%2%2% 2%
Votes: 5359
goto page: prev   1  2  3  4 

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 look an feel thoughts

 
 by robertg2 on: Apr 3 2009
 
Score 50%

a flashy look may not be sexy to everybody. And it may depend : if you want to relax at home, a beautiful desktop may be good. If you are working, deeply concentrated, you may not need to be distracted by bells and whistles.

What is the KDE 4.x desktop aimed to ? Entertainment at home only ?

One additional and personal feeling : many of the KDE 4.2 desktop themes I see seem, to my own taste, bringing in vivid colors. When I need to concentrate, I need that the graphic environment does not try to attract me as advertisements use to do; in KDE 3.5, in Gnome, in Windows XP Classic desktop, you can have such a "quiet" desktop theme, which supplies informations you may need with a normal contrast, being pretty enough as well, but which allows you to forget it if you want to go deep into some heavy work project.

Just see the difference between the XP classic look and the modern look : in my company (scientific software company unfortunately using MS-Windows) we all rejected the XP modern look, too much shiny; not to mention Vista, for so many reasons, way too flashy look included.

Could'n t you supply, at some point of the KDE 4 roadmap, some 'KDE Classic' look and feel ?

To me, what is important is what I do with a computer (using applications for work or at home) : the desktop must be useful, supply services, but it must not pretend that it is that important. It must accept to be forgotten.


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 Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by skulptor on: Apr 4 2009
 
Score 50%

You can use the Plastique or QtCurve themes, they look like 3.5 used to look. Where is your problem?


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 Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by robertg2 on: Apr 5 2009
 
Score 50%

Thanks for the quick answer.

I should have said at first that I am running Ubuntu 8.10, thus testing the supplied KDE 4.2.0

Where is my problem ? well, actually, there are more than a single one :

- Plastik or Qtcurve are not immediately available from the "Desktop Settings->Desktop theme default scroll down list : I would have expected an entry called for instance "KDE 3.5 theme" : some obvious name

- if I click on the "New theme" button, I access to a single source which is "kde-look.org Plasma Themes" : if I input "Qtcurve" or "Plastik" in the search box, they are not found - well, this can be normal, as if I search them on the kde-look website, QTcurve is in the section "Theme/Style for KDE 4.0", whereas "PLastik 0.1.1" (this is the first one on top of the search result, which supplies many '*plastik*' : did you mean this one ?) is in the section "KDE Color Scheme KDE4"

- so I tried to spend some more energy : I downloaded both : now what ? In the "Desktop settings" window, I don't see any input enabling me to supply a theme from the hard disk - nor in the "systemsettings/Advanced/Desktop The Details" section : why can't we supply a theme from a file ? why MUST we connect to a remote source (which, besides, sometimes is offline)

- and about PLastik 0.1.1 : what I downloaded is a file called : 89804-Plastik.colors - I tried to supply it in "systemsettings/Advanced/Desktop The Details/Color Scheme/File" : the filename was accepted in the input field, but once I clicked on apply, in the systemsettings stderr I got :

"QFSFileEngine::open: No file name specified"

Well, all this is pretty frustrating.


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 Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by skulptor on: Apr 6 2009
 
Score 50%

You seem new to KDE, the style is selected with systemsettings. Plastique is shipped with Qt/KDE, but for QtCurve you will have to install it from your repositories.

What you described is Plasma theming, but if you want a classic desktop, you wouldn't use Plasma. Try Aya or Atelier for the panel, they are simple enough.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by robertg2 on: Apr 7 2009
 
Score 50%

Well, actually I am a senior Unix (and then Linux/RedHat/CentOS/Ubuntu) system engineer. I have been a KDE 3.5 fan; actually kcontrol was pretty understandable, and I am so glad of still being able to use KDE 3.5 in RHEL 5 (THEY did not ship KDE 4 : THEY know what they are doing). I don't blame KDE 4 from being different; I blame KDE 4 from being unfinished, requiring to much energy to master, dropped to soon into the public. I feel normal of using my skills in order to configure VPNs, SMTP servers, firewalls, support people having troubles with their TCP/IP stack or even tuning Samba. But I am not very interested in spending much energy in taming a desktop.

Well, when I say that I was a 'fan' : I don't mean I spent my all day long playing with KDE. I am spending my all day long using the command-line (bash or tcsh) from an xterm (and NOT from konsole or gnome-terminal : I don't care !): just to introduce me in a clear way ! I am a command-line man (yeah, old-fashioned, whatever, I don't care !) I enjoy desktops if they can provide me with a valuable practical visual help - KDE 3.5 used to do it. To me, bells and whistles go directly to the trashcan.

As I told you, I did not find in an obvious way "Plastique" in my own stuff - so either I should spend energy to search for it, or I should ask you for more details about its accurate location.

And about not using Plasma in order to come back to a classic desktop, it would have been great that 'Aya' or 'Atelier' (I just did not look for these strange things yet) be immediately and obviously available in systemsettings or elsewhere, instead of being discovered on a forum just because I asked.

You should just consider my point of vue : if these things are not 'obvious', they are (almost) worthless.

This is because of all this trouble that, even if I am spending some energy here (after all, I enjoyed KDE in the past, I am so sad I will have to wait some years before it's decently usable again) I switched to Gnome as soon as KDE 4 was the only KDE release supplied by Ubuntu - I don't like the Gnome layout a lot, but at least it's decently configurable without requiring great skills


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by robertg2 on: Apr 7 2009
 
Score 50%

I guess I found Plastique in systemsettings, in the style configuration : ok

I guess I found Aya in the desktop settings/theme scroll list and Atelier as a download, and I understand now why you mentioned them - you may notice that the dark gray as the Aya or Atelier background in the theme scroll list deterred me to testing them : this dark grey does not match (to me) the light gray (which I was expecting) they supply for the panel color

Now I still don't know what to do with QTCurve ...


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 Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by Fri13 on: Apr 23 2009
 
Score 50%

Quote:
"- Plastik or Qtcurve are not immediately available from the "Desktop Settings->Desktop theme default scroll down list : I would have expected an entry called for instance "KDE 3.5 theme" : some obvious name"


I dont see any reason to rename Plastic or QtCurve because they have called as such on KDE3.

Quote:
"- if I click on the "New theme" button, I access to a single source which is "kde-look.org Plasma Themes" : if I input "Qtcurve" or "Plastik" in the search box, they are not found - well, this can be normal, as if I search them on the kde-look website, QTcurve is in the section "Theme/Style for KDE 4.0", whereas "PLastik 0.1.1" (this is the first one on top of the search result, which supplies many '*plastik*' : did you mean this one ?) is in the section "KDE Color Scheme KDE4"


That is for plasma themes. That is true that some people is waiting to find the application theme too. But it is on Desktop what you are selecting so the expection is wrong. Not all "theme" or "style" referr to applications.

Quote:
"- so I tried to spend some more energy : I downloaded both : now what ? In the "Desktop settings" window, I don't see any input enabling me to supply a theme from the hard disk - nor in the "systemsettings/Advanced/Desktop The Details" section : why can't we supply a theme from a file ? why MUST we connect to a remote source (which, besides, sometimes is offline)"


You are still trying to theme the desktop and not KDE4 applications. The correct path is System Settings -> Appearance -> Style. We do not have yet the "KHotNewStuff2" feature on that. Reason might be that developing a KDE4 style ain't easy because it demands C++ coding. This is one bad thing why those who would like to make themes but dont know how to code C++, cant do them. Currently we are stuck only a few great themes and few versions of Windows 9x and Plastik.

Quote:
"- and about PLastik 0.1.1 : what I downloaded is a file called : 89804-Plastik.colors - I tried to supply it in "systemsettings/Advanced/Desktop The Details/Color Scheme/File" : the filename was accepted in the input field, but once I clicked on apply, in the systemsettings stderr I got :"


Again, just go to System Settings -> Appearance -> Colors to get the downloaded color schema installed. The desktop is different thing than applications. Some people mistakes desktop to mean all what you can see on the monitor, but all that ain't desktop ;-)

I think the mistake really comes from that and the meaning of "Desktop Environment" is missing. We have Destkop Environment (applications, desktop etc).

KDE3 -> KDE4 is littlebit same as Windows XP -> Windows Vista. Things has got better and the change is such that even small things brings for some people problems who are trying to do them with old way. The change was needed because we could solve lots of usability problems and this way help the new users to adapt it faster. Old users just can have problems with it.


What is Linux and GNU/Linux?
http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by psylem on: Apr 24 2009
 
Score 50%

Quote:
KDE3 -> KDE4 is littlebit same as Windows XP -> Windows Vista. Things has got better...


Your concept of better confuses and infuriates me! I switched to Linux because of Vista. KDE was the easiest to configure to what I like so I can get back to work, but KDE4 has very nearly got me checking back in with Gnome. Even Linus hates it.

I'm not new to KDE, or what ever other derogatory statements you fanboys may like to use to discredit my opinion. I've been using various forms of Linux with various window managers for 10 years, though I've only been using it for desktop computing for the past 3 years. I'm just another member of this user base with different requirements than you, until now obviously there have been some overlap. Now some of us are not satisfied with the level of support for leaving things they way they were, simple as that. I could get used to it, but I don't see why I should. It's almost like Microsoft have sent a few developers in to make KDE into a sub-standard Vista clone in a desperate attempt to win back some of the KDE3 fans.

I've just upgraded my Kubuntu to 8.10 not realising that KDE4 was going to be so insanely different. I'll give it a week. In reality I'll probably learn to live with it and I have faith that given time, the community will bring support for my tribe. I can wait, I've just discovered that the latest Kubuntu has KDE3.5 in the repo, so if I'm sick of it by the end of next week, time to upgrade again. I understand it's time for my generation to pass the torch to the next, but what's wrong with just having something that works? Kids these days... I don't know.

I'm the kind of person who installs WinXP and then spends 30 minutes switching off all the fluff and getting to act exactly like Win2K. I took one look at vista and ran for the hills, but it looks like the hills just pushed me out. I think you'll find there are a lot of people in the same boat as me.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by Kraftman on: Apr 26 2009
 
Score 50%

The main reason to do KDE4 was to drop legacy stuff and go for QT4. Thanks to this there will be much more space to introduce some new features in the future. KDE 4.2.2 is perfect stable and usable for me.


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-
.

 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by Fri13 on: Apr 28 2009
 
Score 50%

<quote>Your concept of better confuses and infuriates me! I switched to Linux because of Vista. KDE was the easiest to configure to what I like so I can get back to work, but KDE4 has very nearly got me checking back in with Gnome. Even Linus hates it.</quote>

I did not mean that Windows Vista is better than Windows XP same way. The problem comes actually on the user itself, if she/he is tied him/herself to applications/hardware what is not supported on Vista.

I did not mean that KDE4 is better for all.

I meant that KDE3 -> KDE4 transition is as big as Windows XP -> Windows Vista, where to get _better_ results in future, you need to get out of code what does not work. And KDE3 had lots of such code (example of Kicker!).

And do not draw Linus Torvalds here. He did not say he hates KDE4. He said that he did not like the KDE 4.0.

KDE 4.0 is OLD... Now we are on 4.2.2 (soont 4.2.3) and next step is 4.3. Linus said that he will try KDE4 again when he has next time change to reinstall whole system or build new computer. Meanwhile he stays on Gnome because Gnome was working better than KDE 4.0 what was crashing on all of users because it was for developers and some stupid distributors packed it as default desktop over KDE3 what was not good idea for the enduser!

GNOME is doing exactly the same thing as KDE did. They are going from GTK+ 2.x -> 3.x and it ain't small step. It takes from them about 1½ year to complete the conversation and there might be same situation than KDE4 had with 4.0 version. Hopefully not but that is possible. What you do then? Do you blame again how Microsoft might have get few developers in ranks of GNOME developers?

The KDE4 idea was born before Windows Vista was even shown in publicity. It ain't some kind copy of Windows Vista or Seven. Contrary, it is just opposite. You can even now take Windows 7 and check out how they have made it look more like KDE4. Same thing what GNOME users tries to do, is to imitate KDE4.

KDE developers has got lots of things right and it has be a bumpy road but they need to code _all_ features so they can easily upkeep them and add new features. It has not be a easy task and KDE3 was on same situation on 3.x series. Until 3.2 KDE was unstable etc. Before 3.4 it did not have great features yet. But KDE3 is on 3.5 version and KDE3 is just 4.2, so just give it a time.


What is Linux and GNU/Linux?
http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

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-

 Thoughts

 
 by bobbiescap on: Apr 30 2009
 
Score 50%

In my opinion the team has done a fantastic job with KDE 4 and deserve compliments for the work they have done. We must remember that it is not a mature product and will only get better.

I now have the best desktop I have ever had by making use of the customisation available in KDE 4. I realise that is not everybodies cup of tea, but is that not the beauty of open source? We have so much choice available that we are spoilt.



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.

 Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by tweekyd on: Apr 4 2009
 
Score 50%

Absolutely Robertg2
I cannot yet see any reason to move away from KDE 3.5, because I have a very pretty, fully functioning desktop here. I demand that a desktop/file/programs system is stable. I am yet to use an XP/Vista/KDE4.x that meets this demand.


If in doubt... tweek!
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.

 Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by 5er on: May 5 2009
 
Score 50%

This is (one of the reasons) why we're using Linux and KDE: choice.

If you don't like the style, you can change it.


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 Re: look an feel thoughts

 
 by Shingoshi on: May 6 2009
 
Score 50%
ShingoshiShingoshi
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If this image of my desktop (as it is configured in XFCE-4.6) is any indication of how I feel about this, then you should know that I agree with you.

[URL=http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3769/xfce46awesome.jpg][IMG=http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3769/xfce46awesome.th.jpg][/URL]

I want to know how my system is functioning. I want to know that it is stable and not overheating. My Q9400 processor is overclocked to 2.95GHz. So I pay special attention to the health of it.

Shingoshi


The Immediate Equalization of All Knowledge Among All Beings.
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 Expectations for KDE 4.3

 
 by wcc1776 on: Apr 22 2009
 
Score 50%

I find KDE 4 much more usable than the previous versions of 4, but one thing I miss from 3.5 is the kweather applet. It sat in the kicker out of the way and unobtrusive, but there for a quick look anytime you wanted.


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.

 Re: Expectations for KDE 4.3

 
 by Fri13 on: Apr 23 2009
 
Score 50%

Quote:
I find KDE 4 much more usable than the previous versions of 4, but one thing I miss from 3.5 is the kweather applet. It sat in the kicker out of the way and unobtrusive, but there for a quick look anytime you wanted.


Something like this?

http://img2.imageshack.us/my.php?image=weatherc.png


What is Linux and GNU/Linux?
http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

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.

 Don't care about look!

 
 by Flavianoep on: Apr 28 2009
 
Score 50%

KDE already has a very good, impressive look. What really means now is the way the things work. I guess that I'm not alone when I think the best of KDE has been always usefulness and configurability. Now that perhaps KDE has the best look, KDE developers should focus on more KDE-ish features.


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 Performance and Feature

 
 by panshizhu on: Apr 29 2009
 
Score 50%

Well, perhaps I'm lucky enough, I've found no serious stability issues since KDE 4.0. I don't see that to be an issue.

But what is the reason I prefer KDE3 over GNOME? performance and feature.

KDE3 runs faster than GNOME in every computers I have, (while KDE4 runs slower than GNOME in every computers I have.) This, is what I called performance.

KDE3 provides almost all options I need in Kcontrol, many of them are not available in GNOME and I must edit config files in GNOME. But for KDE4? many KDE3 feature and options simply gone.


Kwin deco: Oxygen icons are cool but Oxygen kwin decoration is ugly and useless, we have many choices in KDE3 but most of them have not been ported to KDE4. Oxygen does not have enough options, it cannot let me set the thickness of window border, cannot let me set the title height, cannot let me set the title color and border color separately...

More configuration options please, that's what KDE used to be.


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.

 performance and resources

 
 by garry on: Apr 29 2009
 
Score 50%

In my opinion, developers should focus on performance and resource usage. There have been many flashy things added to KDE in the past that were just not helpful for performance but made it bloated and slow. I also hate to wait for the Desktop to start up, so having instances preloaded is no solution to speed and a waste of memory.
I tried a number of desktops and found IceWM light to be best compromise on performance, resources, usability and my personal taste. Nowadays I'm on WMX 6 for fun reasons. So I'm an extremist. ;-) Consider my post with that in mind.


Da Tux rox!!!
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 a more homogeneous look ?

 
 by robertg2 on: May 3 2009
 
Score 50%

Hello,

So, with Ubuntu 9.04 I am back to KDE ;-) for a tiny reason, as I am not a graphic guy : I enjoy the *vertical* Alt-Tab windows list, in which each item is clickable - I used 'Superswitcher' in order to achieve the same result in Gnome, but Superswitcher did not evolve, and its list is shivering in 9.04, its awful ! But this is a detail in a graphic debate !

Just one thing : the main graphic object I will see all day long is the panel, as I enjoy compact, feature-rich and efficient dashboards : and I definitely enjoy the default graphic choices : well, I don't like all these dark colors in the background, they make me depressed, but apart from this these are beautiful dark colors, and I enjoy the default colors, the applets, icons colors, drawings and styles, all this is beautiful and harmonious. And I feel the same beauty in the desktop (which I will actually see once every two or three years, as I always have tons of windows open !)

And as I am not a graphic guy, I enjoy that I like the defaults, as I don't want to spend time testing different styles - and to be accurate : I tried several styles, but I am not sure that they were drawn by true artists, and drawn in the intent of putting *everybody* at ease - I often feel disease when I test these styles, it is as if they were often drawn by tormented people; this is not good to attract many people from Windows or Mac :-(

Whereas I definitely feel deliberate graphic choices in the panel and teh desktop (your Plasma thing ?), heading into beauty and harmony. Thus I guess you hired artists, as Microsoft probably did. We IT specialists seldom have a good graphic taste !

So here is my point : from the beginning of KDE 4, according to my taste, konqueror and dolphin became graphically ugly, with respect with konqueror's look in 3.5. And not to mention this poor Amarok : do you hate it ? I am going to drop it, it's so ugly in 4.2.2 ! What the hell did you do ? I will use : I don't know yet : Exaile, Kaffeine, Audacious ?

But mainly, I don't feel any graphic homogeneity between these components : it is as if you did not plan a default graphic standard you would apply to every main KDE component : this is the feeling I have in Windows : they setup a default graphic standard, enough to be enjoyed by many people - so that I am not trying styles on Windows, as their default is good enough to my taste - all across Windows applications, and this is important, this gives *landmarks* and helps concentrate on what is important : the tasks you do on your computer.

So why don't you settle for a default 'beautiful enough' graphic standard, aiming to *many* people (conquer people hearts !), and put an artist, or an artist team, in charge of spreading it across the main KDE applications ?

You should try to hire artists who use to draw advertisements : let the tormented styles to tormented people; but if we want to conquer the desktop, we must consider (alas) the marketing way, and promote a default average beauty.

R.G.


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 Re: a more homogeneous look ?

 
 by Yaba on: May 7 2009
 
Score 50%

WRT amarok... try Juk. Once I was a happy amarok user, also, but with Amarok 2 I went back to Juk


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Do you like or dislike Ubuntu Unity?
 Yes, unity is alien technology!
 It is less confusing than Gnome 3 default, shell.
 Granny thinks it is much more usable than Gnome 2
 Canonical is embarrasing itself with this split project
 Gnome 3 default shell is much better
 I dislike Unity, Gnome 3 default shell is alien technology!
 None of the above, I like the 2Gb for free and Apple alike behavior. Will post a comment instead

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