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- News . 
Linus recommends KDE

Linus recommends KDE


By Yaba
Published: Dec 14 2005
Linus expressed his toughts about KDE and Gnome in a short posting on the Gnome usability mailing list.

I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE.

This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.

Please, just tell people to use KDE.

Linus



Please see the his posting for the complete message in its context.


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 Gnome easier?

 
 by dreakon on: Dec 26 2005
 
Score 50%

When I first started using linux I tried Gnome first. I was horribly disapointed. I think if one has NEVER used a computer before, Gnome would be easier. Or if your used to Mac, Gnome would be easier. But for the most part people use Windows. And KDE is set up a little more like windows than Gnome is. I actually found it easier. And because of it's flexibility, I tweaked it until now, it looks nothing like Windows, and has much more function than Windows could ever dream of having. Linus is right. Gnome has tried to become too easy and has lost its usability. It needs to be balanced. So that users new to computers can dive right in, and power users, like most of us, can still find a use for it. Instead of racking our brains trying to figure out how to get it to do things most users wouldn't need, and therefore is not readily avalible.


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 Re: Gnome easier?

 
 by ruel24 on: Dec 28 2005
 
Score 50%
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KDE is easier on the eyes, has more depth, and is more conistent from app to app. You're right that the majority of those that migrate to Linux came from Windows, and most distros setup KDE to be more like Windows, but it can be more like Mac too. Either way, KDE will be more natural to slip right into and use.

I think Gnome users just like torture or something... :o)


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 laptop

 
 by xam on: Dec 26 2005
 
Score 50%

I only use gnome (as in ubuntu) on my 700 MHz Laptop because KDE seems a bit to slow for it. But I often use KDE apps in Gnome because Gnome has a lack of some (eg. khexedit)


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 Re: laptop

 
 by Fordiman on: Jan 7 2006
 
Score 50%

Hah, got you beat; I've got a 500MHz dell that says, out of the box (from Slax Kill Bill edition), KDE's nice and speedy.


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.

 yep

 
 by peanutbutter on: Dec 30 2005
 
Score 50%

i remember him calling the gnomedevelopers "interface natzis" in an email (found it on /.)


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 ...

 
 by ObsidianX on: Dec 31 2005
 
Score 50%
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Here's my two cents:

In my experience with Linux in the past two years (since KDE 3.0 came out) I've been switching from WM to WM out of boredom but all in all switch back to KDE when I get bored of the one I switched to. KDE is the easiest to use and most user-friendly out of all of the WM's. I've used Gnome and although I keep on reading people saying its "Simple" I just can't see eye to eye. Sure I can get a few icons on the nautilus desktop and a few drawers in the taskbar but when it comes to configuring and setting up the DM/WM it's just complicated. In KDE you have the wonderfully simple and usable Kontrol Panel, in Gnome you have GConf and other configuration apps. I don't know what you guys are looking at when you say "Simple" but I sure as hell can't find half the things I'm looking for in Gnome. IMHO Gnome lost its creative drive as soon as the guys who first created it got bought by Novell. They are in an extremely comfy job and just don't have the drive to improve upon the DM/WM like they used to. Sure they aren't the only ones producing Gnome but they started it, and I've seen many OSS projects go astray when the lead programmers that first started it leave the group. Oh well, back to what Linus was saying: I'd have to agree with some of the people who've commented in saying that he shouldn't be treading on this territory. Don't make such a huge suggestion to people entering the complex and confusing *nix world. Present both choices and if they see Gnome and it appeals to them over KDE, or vise-versa, then that's their own choice. I personally found Gnome to be hard and confusing over KDE but that's my own experience. Others may find Gnome to be intuitive and perfect for their needs. That's the beauty of the *nix world: there are so many choices for everybody's needs; and, need there be a choice that hasn't been created, its easily (I use that term loosely here) added to the wide variety choices available.

Oh well, enough of my rant for tonight.

Cheers,
ObsidianX


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 Linus

 
 by mike1234 on: Jan 1 2006
 
Score 50%

I have the greatest admiration for Linus Torvalds. KDE vs.Gnome? I can decide this one for myself. Thank you. I'm sure Bill Gates prefers Windows.

Mike


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 Re: Linus

 
 by vetto on: Jan 6 2006
 
Score 50%

That is a great point. Unlike Bill's stuff, we DO have the great ability to CHOOSE! I know many that use gnome, and many that use KDE. The point is not "which is better", but rather "which is better for me"

Now having said that - as Linus says, if they ask tell them to use KDE! :)


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 Dear Linus,

 
 by fatbuttlarry on: Jan 7 2006
 
Score 50%

I think Linus's point here, although I can't speak for him, is that the continued developement of gnome applications is becomming a waste of time if the Desktop Environment doesn't improve. (Which it has proven over time not to)

1st... Gnome is still highly driven by command line, which although essential to the development of Linux, does not assist the popularity of a GUI.

i.e. I like knowing that I can change my fonts at any time by typing "gnome-font-properties" is awesome! .. .But why are we still using a single app for each GUI setting? Instead, perhaps we can drop a symlink that calls a new conglomerative app automatically loading the "fonts" tab?

2nd... I love the applications that have been developed for GNOME, but the menality surrounding gnome's ease-of-use is deffinitely a huge issue. It reminds me of an old business that won't change anything because "thats how it's always been"

And frankly, I'm pretty upset with the reluctance of gnome apps to take new themes. I've never run into any issues like that theming a KDE desktop, and afterall, it is the appeal of the OS that usually attracts most users.

i.e. Where would Mac be if their desktops still looked like OS9?

Gnome lacks standardization and ease of use. These two reasons fore me to use KDE. Even if KDE proves to be more buggy. I'd rather spend my time with a desktop thats proven to be more "Open" to ideas... : )

-FBL


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 Re: Dear Linus,

 
 by Fordiman on: Jan 7 2006
 
Score 50%

Yeah. Now we just need to integrate Firefox/Gecko into KDE and toss out the partially broken KHTML.

I mean, even MAC users know firefox is a better app than Safari (uses KHTML for rendering).

The problems with Firefox under KDE, though, include everything from no cross-password management between kWallet and Firefox to lack of mime-type awareness. Firefox doesn't even use kfmclient for opening folders; it'll do it if you have rox, and it'll use rox... but who the hell uses rox anymore?!


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 Re: Re: Dear Linus,

 
 by kundor on: Jan 9 2006
 
Score 50%

Partially broken? KHTML has far better CSS support than Gecko, and does a lot of things right that Firefox gets wrong. It also is lighter, faster, and better-looking in my experience. Replacing it with Gecko would be an extremely poor decision.


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 Re: Re: Dear Linus,

 
 by fatbuttlarry on: Jan 10 2006
 
Score 50%

Yeah, the lack of integration between KDE and firefox strikes me as bizaare... In order to adjust font sizes w/ firefox in KDE, I have to run "gnome-font-properties"... how does that make sense?

Of course, I have a hunch that will sort ou t with time...

What irrates me more is the lack of themability between kick-a## apps such as gaim with KDE... Kopete has come a long way, but it still won't let me add myself as a buddy... :)


-FBL


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 Re: Re: Dear Linus,

 
 by bsdaemon on: Jan 12 2006
 
Score 50%

1st, I use rox... then again, I also use fluxbox, but that's a different topic altogether.

The main reason that Firefox has such poor integration with KDE is that it builds against GTK, rather than Qt. There is continuing work to make a Qt based edition of Firefox, but it's still considered Beta quality now.

As for the issue with the fonts, I think that has been solved: there has been work to make GTK use the font properties and themes of Qt, and the integration is simple to control in the KDE that ships with Kubuntu. I haven't had enough experience with other editions of KDE lately to tell you if that's the case in general.


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 Re: Re: Re: Dear Lin

 
 by fatbuttlarry on: Jan 16 2006
 
Score 50%

Mmmm... Kubuntu...

I'm glad to hear Kubuntu has made some work-arounds for this. Redhat is very oddly gnome-oriented even when in KDE. (I've read threads saying "how do I switch from gnome?" when the user already had, just couldn't tell the difference)

I did the Kubuntu-64 deal last month (5.0.4 i believe) and I was extremely impressed. Unfortunately I reverted to Redhat-64, and then back to XP-64 when I found tons of issues running wine on both 64bit OSs....

But back to applications...

To date, Kopete won't allow me to be on my own buddylist, but GAIM just looks like complete crap in KDE... (although its functionality rules it over Kopete IMO)...

I completely agree with Linus on switching, but the programmers have to switch too... Take GIMP for example! Functionality is top notch, user friendlyness is so-so, and themeability is crap. :)

-FBL


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